There Are 30 Responses So Far. »

1. 

   Comment by Lucas on 15 April 2008:

   Honestly, the word “fuck” does seem credible from you. You may be a sweet person, but being a sweet person doesn’t mean you don’t swear.

   Hope you feel better soon.

   -Lucas
2. 

   Comment by Wesley on 15 April 2008:

   Say whatever the fuck you want!

   If it fits, put it in. If it doesn’t, don’t. Real people swear (and some even don’t!) so if you want your people to be real, at least some of them have to swear.

   For the record, the swearing in 7th Son seemed a bit excessive, but the story was so good I forgave it. As to Playing for Keeps, I haven’t mumble mumble mumble to it yet (I have AADD, Audiobook Attention Deficit Disorder. I would listen if I could, but I can’t listen to ANY (po/au)diobook without spacing out. 7th Son had voices, so I made it through, but I missed a lot due to the episode ending and me realizing I only heard the first 5 minutes), but I bet it’s just fine.
3. 

   Comment by Viv on 15 April 2008:

   You are definitely not reading too much into it. I think the shocked response that you get is due to at least these two reasons:
   1) You are female,
   2) you are a Mom. People are surprised to hear that particular word from a female, especially a cute lil’ slip of a thing such as yourself. They forget that a beautiful, feminine exterior can hide a powerful and creative force within. Add to that the Mom dynamic, and it’s suddenly somewhat inappropriate for the word to be uttered AROUND you, much less BY you.

   I’ll admit I was disappointed at the vulgarity in PfK, tame as it was in comparison to Sigler, not because it didn’t belong or “fit”. The SOLE reason I was disappointed was that I couldn’t immediately share this wonderful work with our tween just yet. It’s a story I KNOW that he will love, but he will have to wait until he is a bit more mature and can handle some of the imagery that you so brilliantly detail. (You know what I mean, think of an 11 year-old male response to a man whose power is to shoot poo from his hands. We’d be in the principals’ office for days!)

   I say follow your heart, and your readers will follow. Not everyone will LOVE everything you write. It’s just not possible. Just be true to yourself and your vision, and you won’t go wrong.

   By the way, I may be a bit biased. I am currently mucking about in the afterlife, thanks to your amazing work. So please feel free to take what I say with a grain of salt.

   Also, it is late as you mentioned, and I’m on a narcotic cough syrup. So if this is more gush than logic, feel free to disregard completely.
4. 

   Comment by solak on 15 April 2008:

   I think you’re on the right track to it here. The shock of an f-bomb depends mainly on the aural/lexical inhibitions of the listener/reader, but also on the expectations that the consumer has, based on the reputation of the speaker/writer. If you want to be free to use cusswords, then you have to keep using cusswords now and again to maintain the expectation. Of course, if you want an f-bomb to really explode in the consumer’s mind, then keep them rare. There’s probably also a predisposed expectation that “tough guys” swear more than “the delicate little ladies”, but that won’t change unless we make it change. “You go girl!”

   In the case of “Playing For Keeps”: Based on the promos (audio and text), I thought I would play the episodes for my 12 year old daughter, but she got behind on her homework so I listened to several episodes before having a chance to share them with her. Now I won’t be playing them for her, because I don’t want her to get used to such vocabulary and accidentally come out with it at school. I will still listen to it because the story is going great. I would have liked to see an [explicit] tag on the podcast feed to warn me about that, though.

   It’s all about truth in labeling. Sell whatever you want, but don’t call it beef if it’s pork. Of course, that leads into a discussion of what details are (not) available in the labeling system, which I will forgo because this note is already too long.

   So, go ahead and say ‘fuck’ when you want to. Thank you for not wanting to use it in place of every comma and semicolon.

   Get well.
5. 

   Comment by johnie1 on 15 April 2008:

   i suppose it all depends on how wide an audience you want to appeal to. i found you used the swearing in Playing for Keeps well, it made me laugh in the right places (but then again i am a punk). People will always be offended.

   Get well soon (:

   P.S., to quote Dog Soldiers: “I love it when a posh bird talks dirty”.
6. 

   Comment by Jason Evangelho on 15 April 2008:

   That title took me by surprise! But don’t ya love how you just solved this internal issue by blogging about it?

   Seriously, this post hit home for me as well. We’re “taught” to write what our audience wants. Ever-building conflict, three acts, a B-plot, proper narration, blah blah blah. For me, I’ve only been churning out 500 words per day because all of those filters, rules, expectations.

   Well, FUCK that

   Kudos for the article Mur, thanks!
7. 

   Comment by Dan Sawyer on 15 April 2008:

   Mur -

   If what you’re writing now is holding back, then you certainly should cut loose. Your work is already excellent, you’ve spent years working on your craft. Pushing into darker, more sexual, more transgressive, more vulgar, more violent, or just plain more edgy places can do nothing but expand your reportoire and deepen your artistic acumen.

   As far as your audience complaining about profanity, I’ve found your fiction, even in its lightest moments, to be very adult and well executed. If your audience if complaining about profanity while subscribing to Sigler and Hutchins, it can only be the Ally MacBeal phenomenon. Fortunately, your reputation is what you make it, and content warnings do wonders to shut up the naysayers.

   Looking forward to the next phase of your writing
   -Dan Sawyer
8. 

   Comment by Nobilis on 15 April 2008:

   Cut loose Mur.

   Write something for my podcast.
9. 

   Comment by Mike on 15 April 2008:

   I tend to avoid swearing in my own writing. This isn’t because I find it offensive but because it has alway struck me as a lazy writing habit. It stems from the basic advice of “show it” instead of saying it. Swearing has always seemed to me a shortcut to conveying information about a situation or character. Throwing a FUCK or OH SHIT just seems like too easy a way of conveying that the character is cool, bad ass or funny. For me, it just distracts from the story in the same way “over-acting” by an inexperienced actor can pull you out of the moment. SHOW… don’t swear. And treat those swear words like over-used adjectives.

   With that said I have to add that swearing “can” benefit a story if done correctly. Personally, I’d limit its use only to characters whose personality matches the behavior. Like a scar, tattoo, smoking or accent… it can help distinguish a character. If everyone swears (and often) it loses what little value it may have had.

   I think many authors confuse swearing with a writing style. In this scenario a person could say there is too much swearing in a book in the same way they might say the writing is too flowery or wordy. Swearing is not a writing style… its a character trait. Therefore, it is most effective when tied to a character and used to distinguish and develop that character within the story.

   Hope this is helpful. I may be completely wrong but it’s still nice to throw my own $.02 into a topic. I’ve learned so much from you over the years.
10. 

    Comment by Jared Kardos on 15 April 2008:

    I have no problems with swearing whatsoever, and I think you can definately let loose if you so wish.

    It feels odd to say this, since while we’re both “wannabe fiction writers” you’re definately more accomplished than me, but I would say that if a character should swear in your story, then he/she should swear. I sincerely doubt that most of your more adament fans will turn away simply because a character of yours says “fuck,” and if they do, well…fuck ‘em. It’s your story, you know?

    So…yeah, that’s what I think. I apologize if I was too familiar with you.
11. 

    Comment by SmittyHalibut on 15 April 2008:

    I think the difference between you dropping F-Bombs and Sigler dropping F-Bombs is that folks _EXPECT_ Sigler to cuss up a storm; he writes thrillers and horror, and incredibly graphic ones at that.

    Of your writing, so far I’ve only heard (and loved) Heaven, Hell, and the first 10 episodes of Playing for Keeps, in that order. I confess that after hearing Heaven and Hell, I didn’t expect PfK to be as graphic as it ended up being. It’s based on comic book super heroes. Now, I’m not a comics guy; the closest I have are copies of “V for Vendetta” and “Those Left Behind.” But when I think of comic book super heroes, I think of younger audiences and therefore no, or little, swearing. That’s the expectation that most people probably have going into PfK.

    If your next novel was (for example) the sequel to Nocturnal, the expectations for language would be very different. (I know you’ve got it in you, I saw your Marigold clip, you can write some effed up stuff too.

    I think you should write something sans inhibitions. Scare us. Surprise us. Change our view on the world. Make Sigler run for Mommy because he just shat his pants; it’s good for him.
12. 

    Comment by Pewari on 15 April 2008:

    I think it’s worth looking at a lot of British humour for examples of how swearing works well in comedy. I don’t know why, but somehow all our really good romantic comedies have judicious swearing in them, but in a completely non-offensive way (well, to us anyway).

    For example: Four Weddings and a Funeral - first words you hear is the lead character saying “Fuck” over and over again with a well timed “Bugger” at the end. Maybe it’s because brits are supposed to be so uptight and repressed that it’s amusing to hear us swear… I dunno. It just works. I can’t pinpoint the exact place where at one point swearing is amusing and just across the way it’s offensive and overused.

    Now, I was REALLY surprised and a little shocked to hear the word “Bloody” in Shrek 2. Obviously, that’s not a swear word in the US, but it is here in the UK - and to hear it in a film obviously aimed at young children… that made me very uncomfortable.
13. 

    Comment by Herbwoman on 16 April 2008:

    I’m of the mind that staying true to the work is what is important. If your character curses like a sailor then so be it. Even good guys swear once in a while. If a few people in the audience have an issue with it, then that’s THEIR issue. Fuck is, after all, only a word. The reaction it conjures up belongs to the reader.

    The only real difference between “fuck” and “snarfleblatt” is that people have decided that the former is a “bad word” but the later can be used just as rudely. I say those people who criticized PfK need to pull the stick outta their butts and get a real life.
14. 

    Comment by Paul Maclean on 16 April 2008:

    What is the purpose of swearing?

    If a word considered a swear word, is used repeatedly & casually in conversation, does it still have the power of a swear word, or is it just another word? I suspect the latter. I prefer not to swear. When I actually do, you know something is up, and alarm bells should ring.

    There remains one four letter Anglo-Saxon word though that most people still find offensive. Mind you, the BBC did an entire hour’s documentary on that word. Got to love living in a country where streets are called Cuntgrope Lane.
15. 

    Comment by Michael B on 16 April 2008:

    1. You put yourself out there more than traditional print only authors. I think a lot of the people who read/listen to you attach their own values on people they know and like and then they react when their projections are inaccurate (now I know you could say that people should expect it from you if they listen/read/”know” you but the sad fact is that folks just don’t pay attention as much as they should).

    2. The non-profanity people are a lot more vocal then the pro-profanity people. No one will email you and thank you for including foul lanugage but those opposed can spin their entire church group into protest over swearing.

    3. Intellectual elitism. There is a non-puritanical group that sees profanity as verbal slumming. They will overlook all else in the work if someone says a nasty word.

    4. A female voice is delivering it. It sucks, but there are a lot of double standards out there.
16. 

    Comment by jazzmodeus on 16 April 2008:

    I find your use of profanity quite natural in all of your stories I’ve listened to. I actually find it a little jarring sometimes when fictional characters get pissed off and *don’t* swear. The characters in PFK and Heaven talk very much like my friends and I most of the time: occasional casual profanity sprinkled throughout.
17. 

    Comment by jazzmodeus on 16 April 2008:

    (Oh, and I’m amused that my browser title bar reads “Fuck the Murverse.”)
18. 

    Comment by Matthew Wayne Selznick on 16 April 2008:

    Interesting, the variety of comments this post has inspired!

    I think podcasting blurs the distinction between the work and the artist in the minds of some listeners. Add to that the human tendency to have limited familiarity with a person (by hearing their voice in your head a few times a month) and then fill in the blanks with their own expectations. This leads to a sense of intimacy, which is awesome, because it can lead to real friendships between the listener and the podcaster.

    In truth, though, in most cases, when the listener “feels like they know” the podcaster, it’s a happy illusion. Unfortunately, the listener’s expectations can color the podcaster’s podcast fiction.

    If people are surprised by “wee Mur” cussing in the voice of a character(!) then maybe they’re letting their own interpretation of you get in the way. In other words, they’ve turned “wee Mur” into a character herself.

    Truthfully, folks want stories from the real Mur, even if most folks don’t know the real Mur from the podcast voice.

    And as far as worrying how well something will go over with an audience… sure, that’s always there. Writers write because we need validation, need to share. The audience is always in the room. But! Don’t let the audience hold the pen.

    I find this bit from David Simon is always a nice re-set button when I obsess too much. I like it so much it’s posted above my desk:

    “…fuck the average reader. … He knows nothing and he needs everything explained to him right away, so that exposition becomes this incredible, story-killing burden. Fuck him. Fuck him to hell.”
19. 

    Comment by J.C. Hutchins on 16 April 2008:

    It is difficult for most audiences to separate the persona of an entertainer from the works he/she produces. Mur is often upbeat in her podcasts, and shies away from swearing (ISBW in particular, as it is a “clean” show). Her fiction is a completely different animal, where she is empowered to express herself — and her characters — however she wishes.

    People who get fussy about cussing, violence, sex or other potentially offensive material should simply stop ingesting the work, whatever it may be. They should also understand that entertainers such as Mur are *entertainers*, and use personas to connect with their audiences. The artist and the art are two distinctly different things.

    Even here, I see supportive comments referring to Mur’s life beyond the fiction she’s writing. That’s a wonderful thing, but it showcases the audience’s blurred perception of an entertainer’s life and the work that entertainer creates.

    While that may be a human thing to do, it’s not an entirely fair thing to do. All work — be it artistic, business, etc. — should be judged on its quality alone, and not tainted by one’s perception of its creator.
20. 

    Comment by Teltum on 16 April 2008:

    The Sigler useing it when he did at the end of the prolog in his book: Both proper and awesome.

    The only thing I have to say about PfK is, “There was swearing?!” If there was it was subtile and I did not pay it any mind.

    This is an abused word but it sure grabs attention in the proper setting.

    A breif history of swearing: Damn it. Uttered in Gone with the Wind. Also the first time in main-stream movies a character “swore.” South Park the movie: The F-Bomb uttered no less than 399 times followed by Pulp Fiction and The Big Lebowski (around 200-250). I’ve watched all of them (South Park when I was like 13.) There is a point where it is said more than 3-4 times a minute for 2 hours, that is my line, just because it was a *little* excessive. The Big Lebowski, it really needed it as much as it was used to make the movie work because of the characters.

    So, I’m going to stop rambleing, now.
21. 

    Comment by jami on 16 April 2008:

    catchy title.

    i didn’t even notice the swearing in PFK. perhaps it just seemed natural to another 30-something woman who acquaintances would consider mild-mannered, who actually drops f-bombs like it was a shock and awe campaign when her future mother-in-law (for example) isn’t around.

    loved loved loved PFK, btw.
22. 

    Comment by Shawn on 16 April 2008:

    I was was reading a collection of short stories recently by *name left out*, and came across a story that had ‘fuck’ about 6 times in the first few sentences. I shut the book, and picked up an other. Not because I was offended, but because I was annoyed with this Tarantino crap.

    I was critiquing a script a while back, and ‘fuck’ was the first word. On that first page, there were at lease 12 ‘fuck’s. I stopped reading that script right away. It’s lame. Over use of the work sends a red flag: amateur.

    My generation uses ‘fuck’ all the time, and even I use it in conversation, but I’m sure as hell not going to write about it. When used sparingly, it’s effective, but when peppered before every fucking word, the fucking sentence becomes fucking useless. And just because someone is fucking angry, why do they have to say fucking all the time? It’s an easy way out. Would you really want to read a fucking story like this fucking comment post? No thanks. I’d rather read something that isn’t telling me how to feel and instead, let me feel it on my own. Like music in a hollywood horror film. It’s a cheap way out. It’s bad writing.

    That’s my feeling anyway.

    So my point is this: it’s over used. My rule is don’t use it unless the story / characters are pushed forward by it.
23. 

    Comment by brian mahony on 16 April 2008:
24. 

    Comment by Kimi on 17 April 2008:

    I know exactly what you are talking about. When I was reviewing a story the other day I came across a female character who said “fuck off” and it was so unexpected that it took me completely out of the scene. I thought at the time that the reason it took me off guard was because I had come up with an image of how the character acted and it didn’t seem realistic. But it’s entirely possible that I just didn’t expect it from the female author writing it. I thought about your question re: Scott, etc…and I have no problem at all seeing him use swear words…and it really does seem like a male vs female sorta thing.

    I also completely zen your worry about “shocking” your readers. It’s why I threw out that poll on twitter the other asking about the relationship between two characters…I didn’t want anyone to read it and then just put it down because they were offended by it. But I guess you have to keep reminding yourself that “you can’t please everyone all the time”. Good luck with your decision to write the way you want to.

    Kimi
25. 

    Comment by Arkle on 17 April 2008:

    Hey Mur, have you ever seen the documentary titled Fuck? I think you might get a kick out of it.
26. 

    Comment by Mat on 18 April 2008:

    Overall I enjoyed Playing For Keeps, but one of the checks I’d put in the negative zone would have been all the swearing the characters did. Not because it was offensive, but because there was just too much of it and it didn’t seem to fit the characters.

    Personally, I try as hard as I can to refrain from curses in my writing so that when I do use them they have the punch they should. (Unless you’re writing a story about rap stars of course, then a curse needs to be inserted between every 6th and 7th work and replaced for any adjective you may have considered beforehand.)
27. 

    Comment by Michael Falkner on 18 April 2008:

    You reminded me of an unofficial military term.

    Befuckled: a paralyzed state of confusion brought upon by the sight of miles of bureaucratic red tape or overwhelming enemy forces.

    Hope you start to feel better. Thanks for the unbridled creativity and social commentary.
28. 

    Comment by Grizzly Smith on 22 April 2008:

    I’d agree there’s a difference between swearing by the characters and swearing by the narrator. What that difference amounts to depends on whether the narrator is really a character talking about their own life, or a voice unidentified for purposes of the story. If the latter, I think the narrator’s voice -is- the writer’s voice.

    And the one problem with cussing by that sort of narrator -isn’t- whether it’s Proper, no matter who the author is. The cussing by the narrator conveys the message that the writer has decided to jump into the story. The effect is like watching a hand puppet show behind one of those one-sided puppet stages, like the old “Punch ‘n’ Judy” shows one still sees in movies sometimes. Then the stage falls over with a loud crash, and there’s the puppeteer, flapping their hands with the puppets on them, and talking in funny voices, like nothing happened. Is it the same show? Is it still a puppet show?

    The fiction author as narrator has a sort of “social contract” with the reader or listener. I agree to suspend my disbelief in the reality of your story, and you agree to present the story to me — not yourself, the story. The puppeteer stands behind the stage, not because there’s a rule against doing otherwise, but because it makes it easier for the audience to accept the puppets as real people, not socks on someone’s hands. The language used by the narrator, fair or foul, is part of that simple wooden stage that hides the puppeteer, and creates a backdrop for the puppets.

    Like most artistic rules, this one can be broken. But you need to know what the rule is, and know you are breaking it. And you need to convince your audience that “breaking the plane of the proscenium,” or kicking the props into the orchestra pit, is an acceptable part of the play, and adds to the story.

    If the audience isn’t convinced of that, if the audience is no longer immersed in the story but is rather staring at “the man behind the curtain,” it really doesn’t matter how morally right and justified you are.

    No offense.
29. 

    Comment by Ian on 29 April 2008:

    Its not that your “too nice” to swear. Generally in my experience if the person uses swear words alot in their writing its because they are not that good at writing. People that don’t have to use it to make a point every other word do it since they can’t think of other better words to use.

    If a given character swears that’s one thing. Everyone swearing all the time in all sorts of situations means your not as good as you think.

    For me Playing for Keeps had realistic situations in where you as a character just ran out of the brain power to think of what to do or say. That swearing was believable. Now I wish it wasn’t in there as then I would feel comfortable letting my daughters listen to it, though its not the end of the world as you have other excellent works for them to listen to.
30. 

    Comment by Dianne on 22 June 2008:

    What is the deal with swearing anyway? I mean, there are worse ways to use language other than to express your annoyance at slamming your thumbs with a hammer or crashing your car. You could be spilling racism and sexism and other negative behavior.

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